1-800-BJJ-HELP
Brand new White Belt Josh Lu calls on Jake Luigi, BJJ Youtuber from "Less Impressed More Involved BJJ", and other guests for help on the path to improvement, performance, and enjoyment in the sport of Jiu Jitsu. Follow the journey!
1-800-BJJ-HELP
#40 How to Win the Grip Battle in Open Guard?
In this episode, we talk about the grip battle in open guard. We talk about getting the initial grips as the bottom player, the concept of creating multiple problems, getting set up, and funneling your opponent into your game. Jake shares concepts from Mikey Musumeci's Open Guard course, De La Riva, Reverse De La Riva, X-Guard, directions for off-balancing, and more. Hope you enjoy!
Download Sherpa, the free AI-powered journaling app for athletes! Join our Discord to share thoughts and feedback.
Use the code "BJJHELP" for 50% off your first month on Jake's Outlier Database to study match footage, get links to resources, and more.
Use code “BJJHELP” at submeta.io to try your first month for only $8!
Use the code "HELP" to get 10% off Jake's "Less Impressed More Half Guard Passing" instructional. Thanks for supporting the show!
Hello, hey, jake, what's up Josh?
Speaker 2:How's it going? I wanted to pick your brain on a very specific topic today because I know it's top of mind for you. What's that? It's about open guard passing. I know you're working on your course. You're probably going down a million rabbit holes about open guard passing. But this question came because last week I was taking a class with an instructor at Victory His name is Eric. It's really fun. He teaches all these positional games and we play a lot of games during class and the game was the bottom players in open guard and we were just trying to get grips and get three or four grips on the top player, the passer, and then the passer is just trying to get to the hip line or the shoulder line, but we don't have to pass completely into side control or anything like that. So we're basically playing this open guard passing position. So my question is what are the important things to keep in mind, or how do you win the grip battle when you're passing open guard?
Speaker 1:Good question. Okay, so my instructional that I'm doing right now is from the bottom person's perspective, but from the top person's perspective, I think the general principles remain the same. The biggest, well, first of all, is the person on bottom. Are they seated or are they on my back?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I think I was mostly on my back. Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So the general idea, I think, is that the situation is very dynamic, right? So in general, I think, one, you're trying to make multiple problems for your opponent to solve, like both people are trying to make multiple problems for their opponent to solve, and then, two, you're trying to funnel your opponent into a predicted set of techniques, if that makes sense. So it's basically, in my opinion, like who can get to the funnel that is going to end up wearing the other person down, pretty much. So what I mean by like creating multiple problems is something that, like Danahar talked about in his guard passing instructional, but also his open guard instructional. And the way you would do that from a guard passing perspective would be, instead of grabbing someone's feet the same way, like if you grab both of their ankles from the outside, instead of grabbing it like that, maybe you grab one from the outside and one from the inside. So now they have to address these grips differently to break them. So it's the same way from the bottom, like if you're seated this is an example that comes to mind if you're seated and you're taking a grip on your opponent's arm.
Speaker 1:Danahar talks about the idea that, instead of just grabbing both their wrists the same way. Maybe it's good to grab one with an inverted grip and one with the standard grip, so you're giving two different problems for them to solve at the same time. And then from like a supine scenario where your back's on the mat, you probably don't want your feet to be on the same plane. So if you're just like sitting there with both your feet up in the air, you're giving them the same problem with each foot. Or if you have your heels to your butt, they have the same problem with each foot. So the general idea is use asymmetric feet, so you're giving them different problems to solve with each leg, right? So that, I think, is a general principle that both people are trying to implement, gotcha.
Speaker 2:If we stick with the bottom player's perspective, the defender, what would be some good examples of other ways to create multiple problems. So one you mentioned is like don't grab both ankles the same way, the asymmetric feet, like maybe I have one De La Jiva hook and then my other foot could be like on their hip or something like that as an example. Or you know how, when I try to get both feet on the inside and I have both my feet hooking the back of their knees, that would be like giving them the same problem. Right, maybe doing it asymmetrically would be better.
Speaker 1:So once you get into those types of positions, I would say, like when you, when you start making connection, I would say that the multiple problems would be more about like directions of off balance.
Speaker 1:You know, so when they're trying to solve the problem of being knocked down to their butt, they give you the off balance to their hands, kind of thing. So instead of worrying so much about your foot position when you have two feet inside, I would instead use that same principle to, you know, focus on like the direction of off balance to create multiple problems for your opponent to solve. Like it's hard for them to not get off balance to their hands and also not get off balance there, but they should constantly be trying to like find their balance and try and navigate both of those battles, you know. So that's how I would look at it, instead of trying to use that same idea of using asymmetrical feet from that position, because I do think like having both your like feet behind their knees is probably the best place for them to be, because you can like kick their knees out and create like really hard external rotation on their knees to knock them down and off balance them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. Maybe at that point you're already in the funnel that you want them to be Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that multiple problems, maybe, like before you get them into that position already. I'm realizing this, maybe one of the hardest episodes to have a conversation about because it's so dynamic. And during the game, when I was playing bottom, the challenge I kept having was like there are so many feet, configurations and grips on their knee, on their ankle, inside, outside, that I kept thinking in my head like it's so hard to figure out what's the right thing to do in each of these positions. Yeah, how does one even begin to approach that?
Speaker 1:So are you talking about, like they're running around to the outside and you're trying to make an action to them? Pretty much Right, sometimes they're running around the outside.
Speaker 2:Sometimes they get a foot in the middle and I'm bringing my foot inside, but then now I have two feet inside, but then they go to the outside. Now I got two feet outside and then I'm going to get smashed like I like. What do you call? So my other highlight my foot all the way over and then they're going to the other side. So it seems like, yes, this multiple problem thing is very complex.
Speaker 1:Is there a conceptual way? So I would say like, another idea to keep in mind is that the biggest advantage the top player is going to have over the bottom player is their speed and their ability to go side to side. So as soon as possible you're going to want to make some sort of connection to them, and ideally that connection comes when you have both your feet to the inside, in my opinion. But that connection could come in the form of, you know, reverse De La Hiva or De La Hiva, and then you start to work to off, balance them from there and go into your attacks. But the general idea is, from the bottom player's perspective, the whole point of connection and getting those grips is to slow them down, right, and control them a bit, so then you can go into your attacks. So I think people get excited when they see some cool like leg lock entry or arm lock entry from like a loose passing scenario. Right, it looks sweet, it happens fast and it's pretty cool. But I think in reality, like if you want to be a very like, disciplined Jiu Jitsu player, most of the time you're going to work to like establish connection first and control and slow down movement and then set up your attacks, as opposed to just like, oh, when he reaches with this arm, I'm going to like hit him with this, like one move I have in my back pocket. You know, like I, yeah, like the whole point of you connecting to them is to slow them down and control them and take away that advantage they have of speed over you. So, when you're focusing on where to make those connections, I think there are like better places to make them. For example, like if you highlight over and you connect to the front side, like you highlight all the way over and you connect to the front side of their body, great, you're probably going to, you know, retain your guard, at least for that half second. But you also are more vulnerable to them going back in the other direction, right, so it's not always possible, but if you can highlight over and connect to the trail side of their body, like if you highlight over and you go in for like a lasso type thing or you hook onto their like back leg or you know whatever you, you connect to the trail side, it's going to be less likely now that they're going to go back in the other direction. You know what I'm saying? So there's right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:So there are, I think, more ideal ways to do it. And there are ways to do it where, like like I'm really enjoying, if I can get it, using my high leg to just like insert as a hook in their, their trail leg, because that allows you to kind of like pull yourself in and then start making like real connections to your opponent off of your defense. But it's not always possible and like sometimes you've got a high leg over and like connect to the lead side of their body because they're like putting some serious guard passing pressure on you. You know so like it's tough to give like generic information and I got smashed RGA trying to do this stuff. So like I'm not trying to pretend like I haven't all figured out or anything, you know. So like yeah, I think there are ideal ways, but a lot of times things are not ideal and the whole point of your connection is to try and find ways to realign yourself with them and like slow them down so you can control them a bit.
Speaker 2:Right. I think that is such a strong takeaway for a beginner like me. Like the whole point of the grip battle is grab, get points of contact so I can start to connect with them and slow them down versus their, their advantage of being able to move all over the place and me not follow along real quick. Just to clarify that high leg motion. So from the player on bottom and this is always such a funny situation when Jake and I are on zoom because I'm just like leaning back in my chair now so from the player on bottom and I'm looking at and the player on top is trying to pass to my right, I'm using my left foot really high to go over them and attach my left foot to their body right so I can follow them. And are you saying an ideal place is when I go over? I'm going to hook my left foot behind their, their right leg.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like normally when. So if it's going over their arm, because their arm is probably going to be controlling your weight, right, right, so if it's going over their arm, it's most likely going to go in, like their armpit or something like that. Yeah, yeah, ok, and connect to their upper body? Yeah, because it usually means their upper body is like more forward. Does that make sense? Yep, they're like leaning, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:But if you go over and they're following you, they're usually going to follow you by bringing their upper body up, you know. So when they follow you up, then you can go back under their arm. So you go back the other way and go under their arm yes, that way, and you go under their arm, and that's when you connect to their trail leg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's this motion called again?
Speaker 1:Like I've heard it called like the egg beater kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Or how about with one foot? This? Oh, it's just like a pommel, ok, yeah. Which brings me to another point I was thinking of you mentioned on a previous podcast, which for beginners I think you said that Danahar says leg dexterity is like usually a really big weakness for beginners, and I can see why, because it's so dynamic and all of a sudden your foot needs to go up and around their arm and insert right on their hip or like right between their leg or the other way around, and attach to them. Does Danahar?
Speaker 2:or have you seen any ways to get better at leg dexterity.
Speaker 1:Well he. So like one thing that I've tried to do with like beginner people is maybe do things as far as like introduce techniques to them that are kind of more leg heavy, that are going to be difficult for them to implement right off the bat, but it's going to train them in that leg dexterity. So like one thing that I was doing is like one person starts seated and the other person starts kneeling and they take a two on one grip on the arm and the same arm that they're grabbing, like that same side foot, goes to the hip. So they're kind of like stretching out their opponent a bit and then they use their other foot and they use their other foot to kick out the knee of their opponent. And then, once they kick out the knee, you have them touch the shoulder with their foot to prevent their opponent. Like the technical aspect is it prevents their opponent from like smashing them while they shoot up for a triangle.
Speaker 1:But the more practical element like I think rarely are you going to see someone like just tap the shoulder in like a competition or something like they're probably just going to shoot up for a triangle but like I really try and emphasize, like touch the shoulder every time and the idea is you're developing that foot dexterity to where it's like this foot goes where I want it to go, kind of thing, yeah, yeah. So I think just having like little drills like that might help in the warm ups Just train that foot dexterity. But yeah, I think also just playing guard is going to really develop your foot dexterity. To like just playing open guard is right, it's going to be really beneficial as opposed to like playing more passing. You're using mostly you're using footwork, obviously, but you're not, like you know, shaping your foot to like match the you know mold to your opponent's like shoulder or whatever you know. It's different.
Speaker 2:I'm almost, I'm almost. I'm not going to do this, but someone out there might. I'm always thinking like someone can hang a tennis ball on a string from their ceiling. Go, go on their back and, just like you know, use their foot and just try to like hit the ball or whatever, like you know how boxers yeah someone out there, please do that and Agus in.
Speaker 2:it would be hilarious, that would be awesome. Okay, back to open guard passing. So I think first concept that's been really helpful is getting the grips so you can slow them down. Is that basically winning the good battle there if you're on bottom and all of a sudden I have three points of contact and now I've got them for a moment.
Speaker 1:You know, you know Mikey, mikey Musimachi he talks about this, I think, very beautifully and a lot of his instructional where basically he says, like his goal is to get to a really good starting position.
Speaker 1:So like, for example, and like you get to a position where your structure is really strong and you have your four points of connection already and now when your opponent is trying to disrupt those connections, as long as you're have a strong starting position, they're going to have to compromise their base while they're trying to remove those connections. And basically your goal is to have an answer to deal with when they're trying to disrupt each point of your starting position. Pretty much. So like from De La Hiva, are they trying to push down my De La Hiva hook or are they trying to clear, maybe, my back foot? Like what are they? What part of my starting position are they trying to disrupt? And my goal is to have a response to each of those positions. But the first priority is to get to a really good starting position. So he spends a lot of time talking about like this is the ideal way to start and then basically, like the rest of the instructional is how to deal with people trying to screw it up pretty much.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting. And then once you have those starting positions and the respective responses, that's basically a funnel huh Right, beautiful. That's today's episode. No Stop, I'm coming together. Are there names for any of these starting positions that you know of, or would those just be the like? De La Hiva, is that what? Would you consider that a starting position?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it would be. I would like the way I'm at least structuring my, my instructional would be like you start in a very dynamic position, you're probably going to make some sort of connection and end up in reverse De La Hiva, de La Hiva that double shin position is what I've been calling it and then yeah, exactly, and then that tends to lead to like Ashigarami and like X guard type stuff. So those are pretty much like the four starting positions that I'm going to be focusing on and that, like I consider starting positions. At this point I'm sure I'm going to like discover new stuff and people are going to be like, oh, this position is really good. And then it's like, oh, that's never thought of that before.
Speaker 1:But right now it's reverse De La Hiva, de La Hiva, ashigarami and X guard. And you can, I think, kind of put I don't know if you're familiar with this, but you can, I think, kind of put K guard in there, because, like a lot of times from North South, when you're like recovering your guard, you do end up in like a K guard kind of situation. So I do think it's important to have a strategy from K guard as well.
Speaker 2:So I'm looking at pictures.
Speaker 1:I guess you could say like those are five Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, got it Interesting, god, I think the bridge that's the biggest bridge in my head is going from these various grips to then getting to those starting positions. Yeah, and I guess what would you recommend to help learn that? For people who are trying to learn how do I get to that starting position? I feel like for people like me, brand new people, like, let's say, I only know that double shin, I'm just like spamming, trying to get my feet inside, getting my hands to the ankle to just get that, but I'm probably missing so many other grip opportunities to get to other starting positions. Right, yeah, how would you?
Speaker 1:tell me, anna.
Speaker 1:I would say, like, in terms of like hierarchy, in my opinion the double shin means both your feet are inside and I put that pretty high up on a hierarchy, above things like De La Hiva and Reverse De La Hiva. So what it sounds like to me is you're probably trying to get to like a more ideal position and you're not seeing the less ideal positions that are available to you. So like to be honest, like a lot of times when people are passing, I'm trying to just like connect to them any way I can and, whether that be Reverse De La Hiva or the double shin position, like, as long as I can like make some initial connection, the goal is to have a plan from that connection to work my way up the hierarchy pretty much. So like from De La Hiva you're able to get to the double shin position, and then from Reverse De La Hiva you're able to get to the double shin position, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So what I would say, like I would recommend, would be trying to figure out different avenues to get to the position that you're looking for, which is that double shin position that's relatively high up in the hierarchy, but trying to figure out ways to get to that position from lower points in the hierarchy where you're also having connection to them. Because if you're just trying to get to that high position without any form of connection to begin with, it's very much hit or miss, like it's going to be like either a home run or you look like an idiot kind of thing, you know, and you're exhausted because you're trying to like go side to side and like get the perfect connection to them. You know.
Speaker 2:Right. So I'm trying to think of now something actionable for me or listeners who want to get better at this. If we were to create a positional game out of this. I'm thinking don't just start an open guard, right, Because that might as well be like open sparring. I feel like it's so dynamic. Would you recommend starting from one of those lower positions, Like maybe start with a daily Hiva hook or a reverse daily Hiva hook and then go from there?
Speaker 1:I think that's a really good idea. Yes, sweet.
Speaker 2:Man, we're just hitting home runs on this podcast today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm glad we did this one. Honestly, this is all very fresh in my mind, so it's good. Good question you asked today.
Speaker 2:Thanks. One other question about. I feel like when I'm on bottom trying to win the grip battle, I'm desperately just trying to attach myself to a leg and like get close. When do I go for the arms?
Speaker 1:So the way I've been trying to try to say so, this is very like detailed you know, trying to zoom out a bit but like, basically, what I think most people do is okay, might as well just go for it. Right, we're here. So if I'm on bottom and someone's passing to my right, they're probably going to have a grip on my left leg and my right leg right. So the left leg in this scenario is my far leg and the right leg is my near leg because my right leg is closest to them, right. So most of the time I think you're fighting their arm, like you're not trying to grab the arm that's controlling your far leg. You're trying to beat that far leg with your leg in terms of, like the high leg and stuff like that. That's how you beat the arm on your far leg, the arm on your near leg. That is the one that you're often trying to grab. That's what I think. Okay. Yeah, I did run into issues with this at Henzos because I felt like so the issue I was having is that they would get good grips and start getting to the J point and getting to that hip and knee pose type position and just kind of like sitting at the J point and my left arm would come across and frame on their shoulders to prevent them from getting chest to chest, and my right hand would be trying to clear the grip on my near leg. Right, I'm trying to do, but my left leg was pretty much useless because I was they were so close to me I was having to take like a forearm frame with my left arm as opposed to a straight frame. So I didn't have enough space to do anything meaningful with my left leg and I felt like the whole battle was taking place with my right arm and I was really struggling. And even when I won that battle, they just said, okay, you win that battle, now I'm just going to go north south. And then they go north south and now they're camping north south and I'm like, okay, now we got to do this again. And then, once I recovered from north south, now they're back to the J point and it was like this is exhausting, you know.
Speaker 1:So what I've been trying to modify is really trying to use some sort of straight post with my right arm against their shoulder or my left arm against their shoulder, to make meaningful space so I can use my left leg If my left leg is useless.
Speaker 1:I felt kind of like a sitting duck in that position and even if I, like I said, even if I do win the grip fight with my near arm and like free my leg, they were just moving around and continuing to north, south, so it definitely felt like I was constantly on defense if I wasn't able to use my left leg effectively.
Speaker 1:So that's something I'm trying to figure out and, you know, get better at. But I think I'm starting to understand a bit more after visiting them, because previously, like people would just come around, like if people come around and they're just trying to get chest to chest and they're not maintaining those really good grips on you, it's relatively easy to just like keep your knee elbow connection on the near side and then work your way back to your guard. And now they're like so committed, it's like really easy to connect to them and then go into your attacks, right. But if they're just like chilling and they're like I don't need to get chest to chest yet, I'm just going to like wear you out, it's like, oh my gosh, this is miserable, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah.
Speaker 2:Damn. So if you do get to use your left leg, what do you think would be the objective of the left leg? Would it be to control distance enough so they're far away and you're safe enough to go back into your configurations, or maybe pull them into some kind of a butterfly situation, or so the left leg is doing what we talked about previously.
Speaker 1:It's either trying to go over the arm so yeah, like if they're passing it's going to be the right arm it's either trying to go over that arm and I think ideally connect to the armpit and like a lasso kind of thing. You know what that is.
Speaker 2:If I'm using my left arm, I'm grabbing their sleeve, I'm like bringing my foot clockwise over their arm and my arm and now having us in this like tied position. Maybe we lost all of us.
Speaker 1:It's like that, except you don't have that grip with your arm. You're literally just bringing your own foot over their arm and that's how you connect to them and start to like realign yourself. Once you have that connection now you can realign yourself with them and ideally start to grab like their ankles and stuff, to start to upgrade your connections and slow them down. But you can also high leg all the way over. If you go try and go over into that lasso, you can also come underneath their arm and go into their armpit. You can go underneath their arm and connect to their trail leg. So like you're trying to make some sort of connection to them, I really don't think you're trying to pull them in with that leg. At least, at least initially. At that point you're kind of on defense a bit and they're kind of like threatening a guard pass right. So you don't have any sort of like meaningful connection yet. So that's hopefully going to be your first form of meaningful connection that you can start to upgrade from there.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. Wow, we went deep today. How often, while you're practicing this, have you ever, like, kicked someone in the face or gotten kicked?
Speaker 1:I haven't kicked anyone in the face and I haven't been kicked in the face and I haven't seen anyone kick someone in the face. Maybe it's because they're not committing too much to it, but yeah, I can definitely see that happening, especially as the top players trying to like dive their head down and get to like a good, you know J point kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, I'll report back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll show up with a face mask next week.
Speaker 2:Like the ones NBA players were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Right, there nose.
Speaker 2:If you were to summarize big, key conceptual takeaways, what would you say for those new bies like me out there with the grip battle for Open Guard?
Speaker 1:I would say the main advantage of the top player is that they have a speed advantage over the bottom player. So they're trying to use that speed advantage to create angles and threaten guard passes pretty much. And the goal of the bottom player is to hopefully minimize the directions your opponent can go, which we didn't really talk about. But you can, like, minimize the directions they go, which you're still vulnerable. But ideally you can, like you know, at least predict a little bit like where they're going to go, and then your goal is to make some sort of connection to them to slow them down and then, once you do that, then you can start to upgrade and go into different positions. That is your like, whatever you're, you're good at, you know. But it kind of starts with with connection from the bottom player's perspective.
Speaker 2:Cool, everything else.
Speaker 1:I know there's a lot.
Speaker 2:You're like there's three more chapters that we're only on chapter one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was that's like. Yeah, exactly this Open Guard. Honestly, this Open Guard instructional I'm making has taken me so long and like every time I like see something new, I'm like, oh, that could be cool to like practice. And you kind of want to like practice it and just kind of like work out the kings and then like you think you haven't figured out, and then you go roll with someone who's like actually good and they just like run all over you and you're like what the heck? And then you got to go back to the drawing board, watch more stuff.
Speaker 1:It is taking a ridiculously long time. So, yeah, hopefully it turns out good, but like it's honestly like pretty exhausting, going like back and trying to refine and doing a step. So it's a lot. I'm not even halfway done with it. At least I might even end up just like, because I wanted to go like very in depth with like the whole process, which would be like a lot as far as like leg locks and then upper body attacks and like going into like all this thing. I'm thinking like I might just stop after like Dailehiba and reverse Dailehiba, because that's even like so much already, you know. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It seems like one of the positions with the most possibilities, like if I think about a tree, like branching out, like this seems to be one of the starting positions where there's just so many branches Right.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of different philosophies on it too, yeah.
Speaker 2:Versus like back control, If I got you know two hooks in and a seatbelt like we got a few. It seems like there's a few branches compared to open guard. So I guess is your challenge like how comprehensive should I make this? Or I guess it's like how wide should I make it and then how deep?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm finding it different.
Speaker 1:Like in the in my guard passing instructional, I kind of forced myself to be like okay, like I narrowed it down initially to maybe like six techniques that I like, and I'm like I need to make this as simple as possible, as comprehensive as possible and try and find like three techniques that work really well together and build like a system around that, and I kind of like limited myself to like a number of techniques that I thought were like the best.
Speaker 1:I have not done a very good job of that in this one and I think like, kind of like, like you said, it's just like so dynamic, you kind of need different stuff for different problems that arise. Like I feel like from a guard passers perspective, you can more dictate where the match, like where you want to take it. You know, like you kind of dictate that more than the person from the bottom, whereas the person from the bottom, at least initially, tends to be more reactive and defensive. And then, once you can make connection now you can start to dictate a bit more. But it's tough. It's tough to like give. Yeah, I'm finding it more difficult to narrow it down and give, like you know, my top three techniques that are going to solve 90% of your problem.
Speaker 1:You know, like there's a lot of problems that can come about.
Speaker 1:So like, yeah, I'm finding that to be more, more difficult to do.
Speaker 1:And then also my visit to HENZO is like they dive really deep into details and like a big not a big, but like some people thought and gave me criticism, that I should have doped deeper into like actually teaching the details of techniques that I showed in the instructionals, as opposed to just saying like, if you want to learn this, go watch Gordon's instructional, where he teaches it in detail here, you know. So I did try and give especially like details that I kind of figured out, not necessarily on my own, but like kind of like pieced together more from like six different instructionals and be like, oh, I like this detail, I like this detail, I like this detail. So instead of having like people buy five different instructionals, like these are, I think, the most important details kind of thing. I tried to do that more in this one as well. So, yeah, between between those two, like more techniques and trying to like give a bit more you know, detail is on on each of them. It's kind of taking a very long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and then having to clean your room to record the video. It takes time, right. Water the plant, water the plant there, all the gray hairs. Well, it's good to hear how diligent and thorough you're being, as you, as you do with with all the things. I'm sure when it comes out it'll, it'll be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if it, if it ever comes out, yeah.
Speaker 2:Fingers crossed. After this episode, everyone will be waiting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's a good question. Good question, I think I've been going back to the drawing board recently and trying to to figure out. So, yeah, it was helpful for me and hopefully it was helpful for you too.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure Super helpful for me, like the big. The big concepts I think are helpful. Makes me think about chess openings. There's a whole world of like people studying chess openings and, for example, like let's look at it, man, this episode is getting long. Sorry everybody, I just have to just hop off. If you don't want to hear about chess, like and subscribe. Like and subscribe, submeta it's in the description, get a discount. These are the conversations taken I have before we started recording podcast. That made us be like, hey, let's start one, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So if you're playing chess and like you're playing the white pieces, you know the two middle ponds. It's like the E file and the D file. If you're playing D, two spaces up versus E, two spaces up, two separate worlds of openings or D one space up and E one space up. Those are probably like the four, I'd say, most common opening first moves. Then there's the most common first moves after each one of those, right, the responses.
Speaker 2:So the world just goes insane of all these branches with openings and so some people like to study decently deep across, like the most common ones, and then some people become specialists Like I only play for me, I only play a certain like E four, and I'm just going to stick there because now I have to deal with just these setters once and for beginners, the approach they say is like don't memorize all these openings, just try to control the center of the board. So like, whatever happens, just control the center. And so today, as we were talking, I was trying to pay attention to like what does that mean in jujitsu of just try to control the center. And I think it's what you said, like get grips so you can slow them down and then begin to set up. And once you set up I'll create position and all of a sudden you're in a position. You know where sweeps or off balances are available and et cetera.
Speaker 1:So yeah, exactly yeah, mikey calls it a fort. You said, you set up your fort and then when they try and like break down your fort, that's when you attack them. And exactly like you said, if your fork may be in the middle of the chessboard, you control the center and, as they're trying to like, recapture it, that's when you can pick them apart, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. I don't know any other podcasts in the world where we dive into chess, jujitsu and bohunting all in one episode, all in one show. But that's us. So there you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of a kind.
Speaker 2:Cool, like and subscribe. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1:Later, jeff See ya and uh.
