#188 Ideas for Stand Up

In this episode, Jake and I brainstorm some ideas we've been thinking about for stand up / wrestling. Here's Jake's video we referenced, hope you enjoy!

Download Sherpa, the free AI-powered journaling app for athletes. Join the convo with Josh on Discord here.

Use the code "BJJHELP" for 50% off your first month on Jake's Outlier Database to study match footage, get links to resources, and more.

Use code “BJJHELP” at submeta.io to try your first month for only $8!

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Hello, Jake.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

What's up, Josh?

SPEAKER_03 0:14

So uh you're back. You're back into the jujitsu swing of things a little bit, at least studying and or entering stuff into the database. Um I finally got to train a couple times this week after being a little slow on training, and uh I made a a shift where I'm not allowed to pull guard for a while in uh in open rounds because my wrestling's so bad. I'm like, you know what? I just and I love passing. It's like my favorite part of the game, but then I just can never get there. You know, it's like not often that I get to pass, like I don't get to impose that like oh I'm on top, I can pass. So yeah, just tackling the uh the wrestling part of my game. Um yeah, um, so yeah, maybe I could just share a little bit about how it's going and then we could just see where where we want to go. But uh I've been to I think three classes now where I haven't pulled a guard at all. First thing to notice is just freaking tiring. Like you you already did at least for in our gym, we're doing all the games, you know, for like 45 minutes or whatever. Then we have like three rounds. And so getting to sit down is pretty pretty nice. But uh not doing that and just standing and trying to defend like when they can and I'm tall, you know, like the my legs are right there. So that's like first thing I noticed it's like it's very tiring, and it's probably good to just continue practicing that and get back into like jujitsu fitness. And then the second thing is like I'm trying to throttle like my focus to not be like my goal is to take everybody down, you know. That's like a big leap. So I've been working with can I get to underhooks and just hold them as long as I can, or can I like touch behind their their knees? And like that's like my main goals, uh and then just try to defend as much as possible before I get taken down. Um, so that's been my goals. Last night's training was interesting. I got paired up with people around my level, or maybe not as good, just miraculously. And uh I started finding a little bit of success with the ankle pick and then the underhook and far knee tap. I think I'm so lanky. And I also because I suck at shooting, like literally 100% of my shots I'm completely sprawled on. So yeah, that's just kind of the state of my uh my standup these days. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Cool. Um, I'm curious. So do you think the tiring aspect of it is being in like an athletic stance to prevent them from getting to your legs?

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Probably, yeah. Especially being tall. Like it's like it's hard to get so low, you know? Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Also just being out of shape, I think, a little bit. So yeah. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah. Uh so one thing I would say Joseph talks about this a lot, is your legs tend to be in danger when they can um like use both their hands effectively. So like if they can connect their hands around your leg or um, you know, grab both your legs with one of each of their hands, um, this tends to be more effective and harder to defend. Whereas if you're able to control one of their hands and they only have one of their hands, it's gonna be harder for them to finish and easier for you to counter. So I would say like the initial goal is probably to tie up like one of their hands, and then this can allow you to be more um like lazy in your posture. So at least this is what I've been trying to do recently is I've been leading with my left foot and then trying to tie up with my left hand, trying to tie their right hand up with my left hand. Um, and then once I do that, then I can decide if I want to switch dances, if I want to keep my left leg forward and do an arm drag or whatever. Um, but this is kind of the way I've been approaching it. Like I'm gonna be in an athletic stance. I'm gonna protect my legs until I can tie up, especially their dominant hand. Most people right-handed, so I'm trying to use my left hand to get their right hand. And then I can um be a bit more, I can like start reaching more for collar ties and um different things. So yeah, that's what I've been been thinking about.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Yeah, yeah. I like that. I never, I mean, I another thing I just noticed, I rarely ever switch dances. I think I always just keep that left foot forward. I'm also in that stance a lot. Um, and then I like I like default to that collar tie a lot, but I don't really do much with it. Um except maybe try to upgrade to underhook and then like eventually lose it. But uh I do like your point though about hand fighting effectively because they can't close your their hands around you if you got one of them busy.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah. Yeah. Another thing that Joseph has been talking about is the um he studied with some Japanese Greco-Roman wrestlers. And do you know what Greco-Roman wrestling is?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

It's like they can't touch the legs, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

I think that's all I know about it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Exactly. Um, and I haven't watched too much. This has been on my list, but I've got a little sidetracked. Um, but uh from the few matches I've watched, their posture is you know very upright because they don't have to protect their legs. And there is very few collar ties that are actually implemented. So it's a lot of like hand fighting and trying to get to like good upper body position, but they like rarely use collar ties. So basically, what this tells me is a collar tie is useful if you can attack the legs, because by attacking the legs, then this would cause them to bend over their posture and then you could snap them down. But if they're just like constantly standing up, the collar tie is not effective and probably gonna lead to them getting underhooks and things like that to counter your collar tie. So at least from my, you say you don't really do anything with collar tie. So that that would be my um like I guess lens that I'm looking through it now. Like it if you're trying to use a collar tie, it's probably gonna be some sort of leg attack. Or like it's only gonna be effective if you can affect their posture, you know. Um, so yeah, like uh that's the way I've been thinking about using collar ties effectively now.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yeah, yeah. Actually, the uh the one the thing I do with the collar tie is just try to spam that ankle pick. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

This requires you to break their posture a lot.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Right, a ton. And then like scoop behind the leg. And uh my ankle pick is is like really rough. It's like either it ends up being like a very sloppy pick up a single, or it's like a true their posture's broken. You like stop them behind the ankle and like push them back, they fall on your butt. Um, I haven't really like figured out which one I'm going for. I just like reach and see what happens. Um and uh yeah, so I think that's really the only thing I do with the collar tie is like pull them forward, whether it's effective or not. Um yeah, yeah. It's pretty dynamic, I feel like when they step forward, there's like I I yeah, I'm not sure what to do sometimes, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

With a collar tie.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Or if they get a collar tie and I have collar tie and now we're in that like neutral position, and you're kind of like stuck there.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To be honest, I don't think I have necessarily a good answer for like offense off a collar tie. I've been focused more on how to deal with their collar ties. Um just because I'm I'm trying to focus more on like uh not necessarily winning the grip pipe, but just being effective from like any position that we get to. So like if I'm coming out, usually my this is this is the issue that I'm running into, which is why I'm trying to counter collar ties, is I'll come out with my left leg lead and my left hand forward. So if I come up too high with my left hand to like reach for a collar tie, now my potential lead leg could be exposed for a single leg. So I tend to keep that hand low and try and like get a grip on them or like an interlock mercy grip on their right hand. But with my hand being low, it tends to lead to me being vulnerable to collar ties on that side. So when they collar tie me, I'm trying to be effective at countering that collar tie. Um, so I've looked into more of like collar tie counters these days as opposed to like collar tie offense.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

But yeah, what do you like to do to counter?

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah. So initially initially I like to take that uh I've heard it called an elbow tie where you like grab their tricep. Yeah. Um, and then try and like bury your head into their like bicep or shoulder area. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

I do that too. And I just kind of like stall there a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Um, and then once like I think if the the the good people at wrestling that I've gone with and tried to do this too, they tend to try and circle to make your head go like off their bicep into like underneath their chin, and then they try and snap you down since your momentum's already going down anyway. So I've been like snapped down off of this this grip a bit at the beginning. But what I've found is that when I feel like they're trying to get my head to shift towards the center, this is a good time to go into the the elbow pass. Um so basically, like when you feel like your anchor of your forehead into their shoulder bicep is getting getting compromised, you like to do an elbow pass, you want to drop your head anyway. So like when they're trying to snap you down, you pass their elbow across and then you can go attack their their leg. Um, so this has been good for me. The other thing that's very good is this idea of if their arm is extended, it's gonna be easier for you to counter their underhook by or counter their collar tie by taking an underhook. Um, if their arm is more bent, it closes off the space for that underhook, but it's gonna lead to more like Russian arm type of counters. So I saw this one guy talking about how for a Russian arm, you want to use like your shoulder to push into their wrist. And if their arm is extended, you can't use your shoulder as much. And it's more of you like trying to grab their arm and pull it across. Um, whereas if their arm is bent, your shoulder can touch their wrist, and now you're using like your your whole shoulder to to peel it off. So this has been um a nice little dilemma you could play. And then like if you want their arm extended instead of an elbow tie, you can uh like wrap your hand around their bicep and post on their shoulder to extend their arm a bit more. Um but yeah, this has kind of been the the dilemmas I've I've tried to play where like they take the collar tie, elbow tie initially, like bury your head in their shoulder, and then focus on either clearing it into a Russian, taking an underhook, or using an elbow pass. These have been my um like kind of three that I've been using a bit.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Yeah. Uh when you go against guys who are like better at wrestling, then you is your main objective to like just stay like in a sound position, try to get to these better connect these connections that are good for you, and then like shut down their their offense essentially, or is that like your main focus?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Or no, I'm trying to take them down.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Oh yeah? Okay, yeah. Yeah, because uh yeah, for me, I I'm like just trying to hand fight and like survive in there. Uh because I I maybe it's just like getting discouraged with like trying to take them down from there. But um, yeah, what are like the takedowns that you like to go to from when you when you start to like hand fight effectively?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Um my favorite these days is again something I saw from Joseph, who learned it from the Greco people. Yeah. Um, but it's when you get to a Russian. I've been trying to get to Russian arms as much as possible. And I've been on the cross grip hype from everywhere, and this tends to lead to Russian arms. So it it works well with what I've been focused on. So basically, when you get to a Russian arm, um, I think we talked about this a couple weeks ago, but get to a Russian arm and they're framing on your like near shoulder, you bring your head to your near shoulder. So now your Russian arm and your head are on the same side of their body. And then like as they try and pull their frame out, because their frame's no longer effective, this leads to you taking an underhook on the other side. So you're under one elbow and you're outside their other elbow, and your head's on the opposite side of your underhook, which is generally considered bad head position for a standing, like an underhook in general. Um, but for things like a knee tap or the knee pick, it's very good. So this has been my kind of go-to is get to a Russian, get to that head position where your head's on the same side as the Russian, and then um look if they don't do anything, if they leave their frame in, it's like the easiest arm drag in the world. So that is always an option. But most, I think decent people will take out their arm, and then you're immediately looking to take an underhook and then knee tap off of it. It's been my favorite.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I do remember us, I do remember us talking about it. Um, yeah, I have not taken, I I get to Russians and then I don't get to the underhook on the other side. I just don't think about it for some reason. I'm just holding it and then eventually they escape. Um yeah, but I like this idea a lot because if I do get to underhook, I do like the the knee tap. Uh and my knee tap isn't the cleanest. I feel like it's like a stumbling until they kind of fall over. Yeah, it's fine. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I feel like it's it is kind of a run-through technique, I think. Yeah. Okay. Just kind of block their leg and then run. Just keep going.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah. Um, yeah, this is this is very, and at least you ending up usually on top. It's not like as much of a scramble off the knee tap, you know, because you already have the underhook. You're already controlling their bottom leg, so it's hard for them to to heist, you know. Yeah. I I like the knee tap, knee pick.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah. That's cool because I feel like collar ties are are used so much. And so you can kind of just start from there and then go down that route. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah. Yep. So it's it's based that's basically been my game. If I can get a uh grip on their lead hand, I generally try to take a collar tie with my right hand, switch my stance to my lead right leg and right hand are my collar tie leg, and then I can move them around pretty effectively. I can switch to hook from a collar tie into an arm drag off that other grip. Um, you can use a collar tie to go, you know, take an underhook or do whatever. Yeah. Um, but when I'm not able to tie up their lead hand, they tend to take a collar tie, and then I try and counter their collar tie to get to either a Russian or an underhook. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Um, when you arm drag, do you like to go for the back or are you kind of like getting outside and then picking up a leg?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Or um generally I do the the kind of popular one these days where your like head is kind of in their um like the side of their neck. Um so like ideally you get to the to the back, but if they circle away from you, you can grab their leg. If they circle so much that you can't grab their leg, then you go to their head and you try and snap them down. Um but yeah, um, I would say ideally I'm able to kind of hang my weight off of them enough to where when I do do the arm drag, their hands are like immediately falling down to the mat and I'm able to go behind them.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah, because a lot of times I don't get to the back from the arm drag. I just get a slight reaction and then I don't take advantage of it enough. I think I'm just in that like early phase of learning wrestling where like you're starting to get a little bit of reactions or starting to make some connections, but not being able to do too much to them.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Um I think I think this tends to happen when you do the arm drag very fast. Oh like you're trying to do it, they're trying to pull their arm out. The arm drags I've been doing are like like very slow, it's like the easiest thing ever. Because I mean, the people obviously I'm wrestling against aren't the best, but like there are some people with some decent wrestling experience that I get to go with. Yeah. And when I do an arm drag specifically off of a Russian arm, you can do it like slow. Like it's very controlled, you know? So it's not like I'm like trying to rush to their back. Like a lot of times it's like I'm trying to almost break them down before I go towards towards their back.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Uh how are how are you doing it off the Russian arm? Are you putting a lot of shoulder pressure in and just like slowly bringing them down and then just like cutting around or so?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

This shoulder pressure has not worked for me. Like, I don't know if I'm just like doing it terribly, but like these people are also much bigger than me for the most part. So like everyone says, you know, you get to the Russian, you like basically like take them down with the Russian. And I'm like, dude, this is not working. Like they're able to stand up. So generally, I'm doing the arm drag off of uh like when my head's on the same side. So like generally when you're doing a Russian arm, the side that you have the Russian, that leg is gonna be leading. Does that make sense? Yeah. Um, so when my head goes to uh my head's, I mean your head's on that side anyway, but like basically you switch your stance. So instead of your uh like if I'm doing a Russian on like my right hand's in their armpit, yeah. My right leg's initially leading and my right hip is leading. But then when I switch, my left hip is leading and my head's still on that side. So then basically you switch from your right hand, like being in their armpit to your left hand being in their armpit, and then you just like turn look down towards the mat. I see. Um so sometimes it it doesn't get their hands to the mat because their posture is not bent over, like they're really standing up. And this leads to uh rear body lock typically for me. But again, I've been trying to work on the rear body lock quite a bit, especially looking for cross grips from there and then trying to break people down. So um, yeah, it's it's worked out relatively well. Um, especially like off the arm drag, you tend to have like pretty good control over their arm already. So like I found at least getting to the cross grip when you get to the rear body lock off of an arm drag tends to be easier than just like you get to the rear body lock and their hands are kind of like already free, and then they're trying to like grab your hands. Now you gotta figure out how to like you know let go of your grip safely enough to go grab your cross grip, and then it can kind of spiral out of control. But yeah, they tend to find like you enter the rear body lock, grab the cross grip like right away when you do it from an arm drag.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Dude, when you when someone has a rear body lock on you and they have control of one of your arms, it feels so un this feels so bad. I feel like I'm just gonna get slammed on my shoulder, like my head, or something like that. Yeah, it feels dangerous. Um okay, but I I like that. Yeah, yeah, I think I I can I can picture that now. Yeah, the Russian time you kind of replace your arm and go for the drag all while putting that pressure down. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Ideally, you're able to like break their posture and then do it, but I haven't had the most success breaking posture with a Russian arm.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Um it's the Hawaiians, they're big.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Yeah. Um or developer mic. Your mic is big boy too. Yeah, it's my job. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah. And I've I've looked at a lot of people's advice on how to do this. I've just found it it works well in a vacuum, and then like you try and do it, and it's like, I can't keep this person down. Like it works well if you can like get there and you're like, Yeah, now I can hold you down. But in reality, like they're trying to stand up. Like once you get past that threshold, it's like, yeah, now I can keep you down, but I can't get you past that threshold in like real life. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Yeah. One of the days I went to class, I went with someone way bigger than me. Dude, there's nothing I can do. Like, the yeah, the I could pull as hard as I can on the collar tie, and they're they're not they're not moving, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Um I just tried to stay standing as long as I could. But uh actually I'm curious about your thoughts on snap downs for a bit. I uh I feel like that's something I don't do a lot, and maybe people don't do a lot in the in at quarters either. I I don't know, but I don't there's not a lot of times where people are like getting snapped down to their hands or like, you know, like the really aggressive one you see in like regular wrestling matches where they're like super aggressively snapping you down. I don't know if people are being nice. I don't know if it's just not part of the jujitsu culture to like just snap so aggressively. Um but yeah, what what are your thoughts on snap? I don't do it very much in terms of trying to get their hands to the mat. Yeah. Um, but I am tall, so I think sometimes I should take advantage of getting a little height and then maybe just tucking into that guillotine-ish whatever position.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

The the wrestling tutorials I've watched on snap downs, it's a very like committed move where you're like literally looking between your legs and you like snap them down and you try and like break their nose against the mat kind of thing. I tend to not be as committed when doing any sort of snapdown. Um, I'm working on this, maybe I'll be better at it when my elbow pass gets better because the elbow pass is a little bit similar in the sense that like you kind of want to like look down in a way to clear their collar tie. Um and I'm getting a little more comfortable with that. It just feels like very vulnerable doing it. Um so yeah, maybe I'll be better at doing like the traditional wrestling snap down, but at least the way I've thought of a snapdown is like usually it comes as a second technique, and we're like the first. First technique, their defense is to get their hips like back. So like it's generally going to be hard to just like snap someone when they're standing up. You have to have some sort of threat that causes their hips to go back, and that leads to a snap down. But even if their hips go back, if they have something to hold on to, you're not going to be able to snap them down. So this is why like burying your head into their like bicep shoulder prevents your head from being snapped. Or if they have a collar tie on you, it's going to prevent their head from being snapped. So the way I've found effective snap downs as my initial attack, not a follow-up attack, has been when I'm able to tie up their hand, I get a collar tie with my right hand. And I start moving away, yeah, away from the hand that they're trying to uh anchor on to, if that makes sense. So like I've tied up one hand maybe with like an interlock grip, you get your uh collar tie, and then they're gonna be trying to use their other hand to anchor on. So I guess it does now that I'm thinking about it, I do rotate like both ways, but it kind of depends on their head position. Like if I feel like their head is kind of like buried, I need to move in whichever way I feel like will clear their head so I can snap it lower. If their arm is anchored, I need to figure out a way to clear their arm. So, like that's kind of the idea, I think, was like they're gonna have some anchor points. You're gonna need to find a way to get rid of those anchor points and allow for a good snap down. So um, yeah. And then the the other way to to do it is to use it as a secondary attack when they bring their hips back. But having that posture, I think, is pretty important um regardless. And like like we were talking about in the Greco thing, when they're standing straight up, there's like no use of collar ties, and there's I haven't seen a snap down, but I've only watched a couple matches. So um again, something I'll report back um when I have more information. But yeah, it's my initial thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Yeah. Um do you what are your thoughts on like the full commit snapdown versus maybe it is still a full commit snapdown to that like guillotine, like standing guillotine? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

It probably they probably won in the one in the same.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Okay, it's just like one their face doesn't hit the ground, it's but it's low enough to just yeah. Is it a failed snap down in a sense? It's still better. It's still like a pretty good situation.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah, I wouldn't consider that a failure if you get to the headlock. Yeah, um but yeah, uh I don't have anything against it. I just tend to not do it. I don't know if it's like an enders energy expenditure type thing. Like I just don't want to be that explosive when I'm trying to do it. Yeah, um, or what. But yeah, when these wrestlers do it, it's like hard. And they'll do it and they'll go right into like a single egg or a double egg or whatever. Like as soon as the hand's clear, they're they're shooting, you know. Yeah, it's not like yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty simple. So it is you better, you better be ready for like, you know, five seconds of just like pure sprinting. You do the snap down, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Yeah. I uh I saw a game from Greg. I I haven't been able to play it, but it looked it looked pretty intense. It was like I think one guy's goal was snap them to their hands, and that'll count as like one, or you can touch behind the legs. I think both guys had the same goal. Yeah, yeah. It was like snap to the hand or touch behind the knee, and whoever collects three in of any wins. So it's like this like up and down dilemma, like one opens to kind of like what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Upper and lower body dilemma.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it going for the behind the knee forces their hip to go back, and all of a sudden snap down's there, and then all of a sudden, or you try to snap them, they go up, and now the legs open. Yeah, seems like a great skill for this. I just never have just sent that snap down before. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah. Yeah. And it is a bit uh, I think it just comes down to that commitment of getting your head like low enough to clear their anchor points. But I have tried to do it, and it is like a bit discouraging when you do like go for it and then like nothing happens.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

You're like, Yeah, you just like run into like a tree, and then you're just like, oh, that's embarrassing. Yeah, so then I'm I maybe it's to your point about like it's it has very much to do with the timing. Like if their hips are back and you like time it well, it'll work much better.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, and the and the commitment aspect. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not committing to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

That's another aspect of wrestling that's that's tough, is like when to commit to the big thing, you know? Yeah. Because there's all these connections, and then it seems like you get to a connection, and then you do have to kind of send it. And I haven't been able to bridge that that piece. I think that's actually, if I were to clarify the the center point of the problem, that that's the piece right there.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, I don't know. Do you remember the the video where I talked about having that elbow tie before you shoot in for a takedown?

SPEAKER_03 27:10

I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

So there was this Japanese wrestler I was watching, and she would basically like her opponent would have a collar tie, she would take that elbow tie, and then she would shoot in for a single leg. And worst case scenario, the single leg fails, you end up in the bottom of the front headlock, but you already controlled her elbow, and then she was already like escaping the front headlock right away, if not just like preventing the front headlock altogether. So again, uh this is goes into the collar tie um escape type of uh type of stuff, but I've really been enjoying getting to this elbow tie grip. I think it leads very nicely into underhooks, rushing arms, and it gives you like a nice risk management tool when you're trying to attack the legs. So um, yeah, the other thing I've been working on more is escaping the front headlock for this reason to give myself more confidence with shooting it on legs. But a lot of the front headlock escapes involve controlling their elbow, unless you're doing the like two-on-one wrist one. Um so yeah, that's uh that's been kind of the way I've been trying to like um make myself have to be less explosive, you know, get to a leg.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Right. Um, we should link that video in the the description for for myself to watch and anyone anyone listening as well. Yeah, I'll send it to you. Cool. Yeah, dude, such good I so many good ideas here. Um yeah, I think especially that Russian tie, like I get there for a second, but now it gives me an idea to how to like get to an underhook and like continue other things. So I think that's one takeaway for me for sure. Um, and then I like this idea of the elbow because I get stuck in front of hand lock a lot. So if you can start with that for an attack, even if it fails, you're right into the path of escaping. That's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yeah. And the other thing I would say about the Russian arm is like there are attacks you can do on their legs, like Uchimadas and foot sweeps and stuff. And these tend to get their hips moving back, and then you can try and snap them off the Russian. And then the other thing that I think is a very valuable thing is when you get to that, what I've been calling a Greco two-on-one, which is a Russian with your your like opposite hip leading after they frame on your shoulder. Um the thing that gives like me the most problems from there is when they start to get their head like into my like sternum and start to get their hips back a bit more and they start framing on me and they start to create more space. And this is like a very easy snap down opportunity. Oh, yeah. So um yeah, like the again, the idea that snap downs are generally not my first attack, but it tends to be the attack you do when they're defending your initial attack. Um so yeah, that's that's the other way I would think about incorporating snapdowns.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

Dang, nice, very nice way to put a bow on it. That's perfect, actually. Yeah. That was fun. Um I feel like we went all over the place a little bit, but it it it we we covered a lot. I think there's a lot of ideas in there for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

So yeah, yeah, very cool. Maybe uh like I don't know how effective you think it is to like get an underhook and then just try and maintain your underhook for as long as possible, or just like touch behind their knees. Um yeah, I guess how useful do you think that has been in your skill development?

SPEAKER_03 30:34

I don't know. I'm I'm not sure. I I think it's like I think the touch behind the knees has been nice, uh, because I I haven't been good at shooting, but at least it makes them react. Uh, and so maybe I can start building on that reaction, which maybe the snapdown is is the next place to go uh from there. The underhook feels like a little bit like I'm kind of spamming to just get there. And then if I can get the I really only have one thing I do from there, which is like try to go for that that underhook knee tap, but uh if not, then I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yeah, I know you were working on um attacking from half guard with an underhook. So maybe you could try and link these together where like you get the underhook from standing and then you pull guard with the standing underhook. So now you're playing maybe try and pull the half guard. So now you're playing half guard with an underhook, and then you can work from there. Wrestle up or something like that from there. Yeah. The idea of playing the whole space with the underhook. So grip fight from standing and then use that to um pull guard with a good connection. And yeah, this is the other thing I've been thinking about with the collar tie. I showed you that example. I used the example in my last video, but um, where like he's trying to clear it into a rush and wasn't able to, so then he sits to guard, clears it across, and then wrestles up with a single leg. So yeah, just trying to I get the idea behind limiting your ability to pull guard because you focus um on that skill, but uh it does kind of limit the the tools you have available. Um so yeah, just some some other ideas to throw at you.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Yeah, yeah. Maybe I can uh not make it so strict. Like if the guard pull is a level change to a wrestler, then that counts as like wrestling, or it doesn't count as like a true like accepting bottom. Yeah. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Like there has to be some sort of connection before you sit, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Um, yeah, and then maybe once that connection is broke, you have to get like back to your feet. You can't like sit and play guard, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um reminds me of like there was like a clip for from Nikki Rod at the UFC VJJ. I don't someone asked him, like, sit to guard or like take him down. And he's like, sit to guard to take him down. Like, okay, yeah, there you go. So yeah. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

I think that is that today.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

I think it is today, yeah. I think it's like in a few hours or something like that. So I think it is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Andres is out there. Oh yeah. So many things to watch.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Uh what is he or who's he coaching?

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Uh uh, he's coaching Amanda Amanda Bruce. Gotcha. Is that her name? Yeah, I should know this. I think that is her name. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. She's representing Corvus now and he's out there, so pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah, I watched the last UFC where he was there with Raina. Yeah. And yeah, she did, she did she got a submission at the end.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Yeah, yeah. It was like, was it a new was it a knee bar?

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Pretty cool. I think she did more wrestling.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

She did a lot more wrestling, yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. And Andres' advice to her, which I highlight in my video. I think it's coming out like Tuesday. I don't remember when I scheduled it to come out, but I think like in general, I think a lot of people are getting very good at using the slanted walls. Um it's not new anymore, you know. And Raina kept getting pushed up against the the wall. So um Andres' advice was be more aware of where you are and try and circle towards the middle. Um, I don't think she necessarily did that very well, but uh she once they started actually jujitsu, she was much better.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's interesting. I'm like, I'm excited to see. They didn't they've been putting on a lot of events. Like I feel like it's been happening uh more and more often. Um have you been watching the RAF? I feel like that's happening like quite often as well. Yeah, it's been it's been pretty entertaining, like the the clips I see at least. But uh what's Aria? It's like the real American freestyle. It's like these wrestling events. Um you haven't you haven't seen these? Like Armin Sarukian like has been like wrestling a bunch. Um Colby Covington was in one. Uh like M ex MMA fighters are wrestling.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

I see.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Yeah. I I've seen that. I didn't guess pay attention to the organization. But yeah, I've been also kind of out of the loop for the last month or so.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

But I think you might like them. They're uh they're pretty entertaining and they happen a lot. Oh, um fucking Mirab just like competed in one like broke his nose again or something like that. I see. Yeah. Gotcha. Uh and I think Ben Askren is gonna compete in one coming up, even though like last year he had all his health issues, which is crazy. He's gonna wrestle like in a wrestling conversation.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

So dang. I'm interested to see hear more about like his recovery and what he did for the. I know.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Now he's competing in wrestling. Like that's a new later. That's very nuts. It's nuts. Super inspiring.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Um I think Gable Stevenson just did a match as well. So it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Interesting. Yeah, I'll have to look more into it.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Yeah, yeah. Maybe you can enter some into the database. Yeah. After all the Greco stuff. Yeah. It's an interesting rule set. It's the one where like you can take them down, you can push them out, but you can also like turn them.

unknown 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

You know, like roll them. I don't really under I that one never, I never really understood.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

It's like I I'm not entirely sure on all these rules either, but anytime their back is exposed to the mat, you get a certain amount of points. And I think it's I could be wrong, but I think in college, you maybe get like a minimum number of points. So maybe let's just say it's two points. And then the longer you hold them there, you get additional points to like a maximum of four points. So you'll see like the ref like counting to see how long you've exposed their back to the mat. If you can hold them there for long enough, you get the pin. But if you hold them there and then they like turn to their knees, you'll get points based on the ref's count. So you might get like three points for the back exposure, four points, or two points. Whereas I think in freestyle wrestling, it's every back exposure is two points. So you'll see someone like take someone down, get to Turtle for like, you know, whatever, four points, and then they'll just grab the legs and just like spin, and then get like 12 points when the match.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, or they get taken down and they just like kind of like splay out just to not get like rolled over. And then or they sometimes like lace the legs and there's like slight spitting rolling, roll and rollin'. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah. This has been something that's like I'm still working on solutions for, but like uh you know what a head lever is? From turtle, you uh it's a wrestling move, you like put your head into their armpit and you grab their wrist on the same side as your head, and then you use that to like pull their hand back and then you break them down to the math.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Wait, you're under their armpit?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

With your head, and then your hand is grabbing their wrist on the same side, and everything is like linear, you're not like rolling, but you're just like pushing their shoulder forward and pulling their hand back. So eventually they fall and you pull their hand back, and then you can like um go into different like ways to expose their back to the mat. But I tried to do this in jujitsu, and like I'm trying to do the head lever and I break them down to the shoulder, and then they just like do like a little like roll and they put their back on the mat and they're back in guard. I'm like, well, shoot. Again, right, right, right. So it's like little little things like that. It's like, man, I need to get uh some solutions or like follow-ups to when they do these types of things because you don't see that counter in wrestling of like I'll just my guard fine. Um people just like belly out, you know. Yeah, so yeah, it is like little things like that are that are uh it's just the the nature of it, you know, like problem solving. Um, but I think it's it's better to try and learn from these and then try and adapt them, you know, as opposed to just ignoring them because wrestling doesn't work for jujitsu. So I'll share insights, but right now that's a current problem that I'm trying to deal with. Yeah. How's the knee? Sorry, we we were doing like turtle front headlock stuff, and it was a bit swollen the next day because I was when I was the bad guy, I was on my like knees from turtle, especially. So I took uh a couple days off after that day. So I'm trying to yeah, I don't know. It's it's super annoying.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

So um, yeah, it's frustrating, but it is what it is. So you kind of have to like minimize weight on knee for a little bit as you get back.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Yeah, seems okay like even like attacking from mount or like side control or any like top position, I've basically just tried to play it without my right knee being on the mat, which is pretty limiting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

Yeah. So do you think you're gonna like do more like guard stuff or like go back into leg stuff or I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

I've been doing more guard, guard stuff, um, and then just trying to use guard to take the back so I don't have to be on my knees at all. Right, right. So yeah, that's what I've been trying to do, or a lot of standing stuff. And then um, like I don't necessarily go to my knee when when shooting. So this is why the brush charm I think has been like my favorite thing to do. Because it's like you do the arm drag, get to the rear body lock, take them down, you're already on top top turtle or on their back, and like I feel like I never have to hit my knee on the on the mat.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

So yeah, yeah, you could just go on to that side, take them down to that side, keep your knee up the whole time. Yeah, yeah, nice. So that's what I've been gravitating more towards. Gotcha. Yeah, it must feel good. Get back on the mats and thinking about jujitsu again. For sure. Cool, cool.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Good luck with your wrestling.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Thank you. All needed.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Talk next week.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

See ya.